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goldmedalcoach

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Jan 27 11 11:35 AM

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message to a 15 year old that played for us two years ago (names changed of course)

Kati 

Yeah it sucks when you don't get along with or like your coach.  It kind of sucks all the fun out of something that you're doing because you enjoy it. (Sometimes we get parents that do the same)
 
I know you've heard this before but what you're going through right now is pretty much like real life.
There will be times in your life that you may get a professor in college, a boss, a client, or a fellow associate that you just don't fit well with. Or perhaps just don't like.
 
So you really have to look at this as a life lesson that will prepare you for these type people in the future.
You have to try to take the high road, be as respectful as possible, do the best you can, and learn from the situation and prevent getting involved with that person in the future.
 
In high school, my Sophomore and Junior years, we had this head football coach that we grew to dislike.
He didn't treat all the players equally, was really tough on us, and was obsessed with making himself look good.
 
My sophomore year we had a decent team and we played one of the best teams in the state.
We were only losing in the 3rd quarter 16 - 0 and the coach kept calling for quick punts on third down.
It dawned on my that he was just trying to keep the score low to make himself and perhaps our team look good.
 
So here was me, a little 15 year old (just glad to one of the few sophs on the varsity) yelling at him on the sideline that we should be trying to win and not just keep the score low. He kind of laughed me off and the next year I became one of his favorites. (Great competitive spirit I guess)
 
Most of us did not like him though because he always made us do plays over and over and over again, and then run the hated sprints afterwards. One night we practiced so late they had to pull cars up to the practice field just so we had lights.
 
We went to the state playoffs my junior year and had the best run ever in the school's history.
The next year he got a college job and now we disliked him even more for leaving us.
 
The new coach was the assistant coach from the year before. We all liked him personally but he was not a very good coach. We really missed the first coach that year. In fact we invited him back to watch our spring game of graduating seniors against next years team.
 
Moral of the story? Don't let me write novels. (too late)
 
Or maybe sometimes you should not quit something because you don't like someone but try to make the best out of the situation and learn to deal with difficult people.
 
You will certainly run into many of them in your life.  I'm sure your mother and father have run into a few opposing lawyers and or judges that were difficult to deal with.
 
When the time is right you can always end your relationship with them and learn how not to get involved with people like that in the future. It may be tough but take the high road and do the best you can. In your case there are other teammates involved that will lose out by not being around you the remainder of the season.
 
Be strong and be the leader that I know that you can be.
 
 
Coach Paul
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bumpnfly

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Jan 27 11 12:07 PM

Your letter is good advice to young athletes but the football coach you describe isn't abusive. Why did you name this thread "verbally abusive club coaches"? Being tough and being abusive are two very different things.

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goldmedalcoach

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Jan 27 11 12:56 PM

good point about the label
The point I tried to make with my own experience was that kids sometimes don't like coaches for whatever reason and need to learn to deal with it.


My old football coach was a bit abusive to certain players but at that age I probably didn't even realize what that meant. Plus football coaching for boys is probably somewhat different than coaching volleyball girls.

I did get to see this girl's coach in action and he was very interesting to watch. The entire team played like they were afraid to screw up and get yelled at.  Which happened several times. Technically they were fairly sound but I didn't see any smiles on the players' faces even when they won.

I suggested to one of the parents to video tape him in action with plenty of close ups and then send him a copy.



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bumpnfly

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Jan 27 11 1:17 PM

I understand what you are saying and what you are trying to get across to the girl. Sometimes the line is so fine and depending on the athletes and their parents beliefs and/or how thick their skin is - the line is somewhere different.
My older dd was quite verbally abused by a coach and then when I learned it was happening yet again in another sport her response to me was "well she was no where near like coach M so I figured it was ok." UGH! I will say that because of these events my dd has quite the thick skin - sometimes it's good and other times it is not. She is able to handle a lot more then other girls her age but is less intolerable when it comes to certain things like whining, complaining, etc. Sometimes she is over-board on how much to "suck up"! My younger dd has had coaches like your football coach - she can deal with a great amount of whatever a coach can deal out - but she also has the personality to talk to coaches and has a good repoire with most.
I do wish that coaches remembered along with competitivness comes keeping the love of the "game" a live! When I coached (fill in on occasion still) I am very tough on my girls but they still know I care for each and everyone of them and have their best interest at heart. If I ever don't do that then I have failed.

I am sorry for the group of girls you are giving advice to right now - very sad that they aren't even happy when they win. That sounds like something for the director to know about and take on! The more I inquire about college and college coaches I learn they want to see kids that can shake things off quickly and can see the love of the game on their faces - this coach you are talking about isn't providing that for those girls! sad

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BeachBalls

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Jan 28 11 11:01 AM

Some thoughts on "tough coaches":

There are coaches, regardless of the sport, that take a demanding approach, motivating and even intimidating through yelling, punishment (suicides, etc) etc. My experience has been that the most effective of these coaches also know when to tone down and encourage, and also understand whcih players can take this kind of heat and which ones are best left alone. I will add a bit of "genetics" into this by saying that the "tough" coaches that end up being effective are probably wired that way (tough).

The challenge comes when a player that played for and respected one of these coaches, and whom is not "wired that way", goes on to become a coach and feels that they also need to "be tough" when it is not necessarily in their nature. My eldest DD had such a coach. Talented, a tough taskmaster, and a brilliant game-day coach that none the less struggled mightily with her teams. Her teams consistently did well, but could not "win the big one". After losses, and especially when the level of play was unacceptable, she would berate the team, sometimes for as long as 30-45 minutes. She once did this while still in the visiting gym, finally yielding when the janitor wanted to lock up. The issue for me was that after a few minutes, the kids were 100% checked out mentally. They knew that they played poorly and understood that the coach was not happy. The coach, on the other hand, seemed to not understand that the point was taken, and, in my opinion, was following some type of formula indicating how she should react to a porr effort.

It's too bad, really, as this coach is a nice person and a very talented coach, but may not ever reach her goals unless she learns to "style-flex" a bit, in order to get the most out of her teams.

Last Edited By: BeachBalls Jan 28 11 11:04 AM. Edited 1 time.

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groupguy

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Jan 28 11 7:10 PM

The no a**hole rule

There's been research showing that verbally abusive bosses achieve worse results over time (the book above, for example), but I've never seen any that shows that verbal abuse (name calling, cursing, threats, putdowns) actually delivers positive results.  If anyone here has seen it, please post.

Meanwhile, I'd hope young coaches don't attribute results achieved by knowledgable coaching, high expectations, and caring to abusive behavior born of frustration and being overmatched by circumstances.  While Billy Martin was famous for getting results in the short term, Bobby Cox was much more successful over the long term- and Billy Martin was just as knowledgable as Bobby Cox, just had a temper that got in the way.

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illvb

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Jan 28 11 7:48 PM

Personality Disorder ?

Last year my daughters coach was verbally abusive but I dont believe it was a coaching strategy. He wasnt able to control his emotions and became outraged when he was frustrated with the players mistakes.  It is possible that might be happening to some degree with otherwise solid coaches.

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realdeal212

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Jan 29 11 8:50 AM

Complaints

I have coached club for this being my 8th year. I have won regionals multiple times and have 1 National title at 13's. I am a coach that coaches with lots of emotion and I have very high expectations. I also have very close relationships with my players and they understand what my expectations are. 2 weeks ago we played in a tournament and beat the best team besides ourselves in the tournament. We then came out against a lesser opponent and went down 6-12 in game 1 and I called a timeout and YELLED at my girls for not playing to there level. We then came back and won game 1 25-16. my parents were telling me how great I did and how glad they were that I yelled at them like I did. The next day I received an email from our club director about multiple complaints from other parents and coaches at the tournament about my "behavior towards my players". My opinion is what I do and say to my players is between myself and my players [and parents of course]. Why are people so soft now a days or feel that they can decide how people conduct themselves that have nothing to do with them. I told the club director that if I had to do it over I would do it the same way. My job as a coach is to make my players better and succeed. I also said that if it was my parents that complained then yes I would not do it and work on my attitude. Other parents and coaches complaining just sounds like a bunch of sore losers to me. I even went to the extent of asking my players if they thought I was to hard on them and they responded with, NO because we know who we are playing for and we know what your expectations are and we know you will push us to reach our goals and we liked it because we came out and played great after, we needed it. Point of the story is butt out of situations that have nothing to do with you, if you don't like a coach then don't play for him. Keep your opinions to yourself when they don't effect you directly [and not just because you lost].

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bumpnfly

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Jan 29 11 9:19 AM

realdeal - I can not say what you did is OK or not because I did not see/hear it so I will NOT comment on YOUR behaviour. I am sorry that you believe that as a human being with morales that it is not our place to take action when we see something that doesn't "sit" well with us. Really?? A person with real morales would never write a letter out of resentment or bad sportsmanship - but rather because they care about the youth involved. Remember - I am NOT talking about your situation, I was not there and I am a parent/coach believes in working hard and not being a whiner! To each their own but my kids have been in situations with coaches that were very unhealthy and because of this I will not sit idly by and allow it because we are winning. It is easy to accept something when you are on top - losing is a whole other ball game.
Maybe the people that wrote the letters are jealous they aren't on your team - who knows - but either way you shouldn't just dismiss the comments. Last season my dd's team did quite well with a coach that not one time raised her voice to get results. I understand being excited and getting a bit loud - remember the fine line...
I am not a pansy parent - you can make my dd run her butt off, call her on her attitude, etc. but do not cross the line - I will call you on it! win or lose And I know I mentioned this earlier... my dd was so mentally abused by a coach that when another was abusive she stood by and took it (because is wasn't as bad as the previous coach) and thought it was making her better! Geesh people - get over yourselves! I was young and naive and it is my nature to forgive and give second chances - I was not so nice the second go around! Coaches wouldn't know that I am on guard - I am the parent that sits by watching quietly just enough to know if you are crossing the line - I also am the one that allows my dd to handle her sport and her problems on her own - she does a great job with it so I haven't had to step in at all in her vball playing days thus far.
Sorry for the book again! LOL Please just watch the line - take into consideration what others say even if it is out of line - just put it in the back of your mind for future reference.

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volleymygame

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Jan 29 11 10:06 AM

I am not a coach, just a parent.  I would think if there is enough respect of the player to the coach, there would be no reason to yell.  I notice DDs coach doesn't yell, but he sternly discusses and the girls know when they have disappointed him in the way they have played.  It's sort of like when you father gave you "the look" when you were little and you knew they were in trouble.

I wouldn't care if a team had a winning record or not, to see a coach YELL at the players during a game or practice would turn me off to the club and the coach. 

MHO.

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BeachBalls

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Jan 30 11 7:47 AM

Yelling versus coaching loudly

Realdeal.;


Winning makes everything a little better. Yelling (coaching loudly to gain attention) versus demeaning makes a difference. Sounds like you are getting it right. I agree that complaints from other teams are almost irrelevant. Your parents understanding and acceptance carry significantly more weight. There are a lot of busybody parents that always think they know what is best even though they know only a fraction of the story.

Opinions are like re5*ums. Everybody has one and most stink.

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TX145aFan

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Jan 31 11 2:57 PM

it comes with the territory as a coach....I had a girl who hated me @ 15's...hated me. Quit on me in the middle of a tourney, yelled at me ect. I cont to push her...next year she loved me. Everything changed bc she realized what I was doing.

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skipper

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Feb 1 11 8:46 AM

Respect

I assume RealDeal is a young coach by the poor spelling and english.   The first red flag is telling us everything "he" has won versus what his teams have done.  The second red flag is claiming everyone should butt out as it's between he and his team.  It's only between he and his team if he talks quietly enough that others can't hear his "discussion" with the team.  As soon as you begin yelling, it's fair game for others to criticize.  Some parents, and club coaches don't want that example to be set as the only way to be successful.   The earlier poster said it correctly that there is a fine line.  Young players can be bullied and intimidated in to just taking the verbal lashing.  They are too afraid to complain.  Just yelling to play better doesn't give instruction on how to fix the problem.  If a player isn't giving effort, you can pull them and explain the reason they are on the bench is that you don't see the effort that's expected... Having said the previous, there are still many times to have the stern discussion and chastizing the team without creating the spectacle.

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Loyal Opposition

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Feb 1 11 8:56 AM

I read RealDeal's post, and although I didn't see the tournament in question, I have no real issue with what he said.

If I can paraphrase, he said, "I've been doing this for 8 years; I know what I'm doing and my teams are very successful. If you don't want to play for me, don't play for me."

I coach a 13's team also. In practice the other night, I just about blew a gasket. We were trying to do what should have been a pretty simple drill to work on our hitting ball control, and it was pathetic. I let it go on for a little while, then I called them all together... and yelled at them. Yes, I yelled at them. And then they went back out and the drill immediately got 100% better.

After the drill, I said to them, "Well, what you're teaching me is that I have to yell at you sometimes."

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goodluckhavefun

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Feb 1 11 8:58 AM

We have an amazing coach this year, she wins and has an amazing record, she has a style where everyone is accountable, game by game point by point.

After one of the first few practices, my DD said the coach YELLED at me tonight, then she said let me rephrase that "she gave me a stern talking to! it scared me more than yelling".

I asked her if she deserved it and she said I learn alot from it.

Our team is playing so much bigger than I ever thought they could.

Last Edited By: goodluckhavefun Feb 1 11 9:01 AM. Edited 1 time.

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volleymygame

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Feb 1 11 9:20 AM

Skipper said it very well. I have seen many coaches yell and I really don't think it's necessary. Do you really want to teach kids that it's okay to pitch a fit to get what you want? DD's coach does the stern discussion and the kids just know. The team wins too. He's tough on the girls, asks a lot of them, and he follows through on rules and promises. In return, the team respects him.

Besides developing girls into great volleyball players, club ball is a business. Directors do not want spectacles on the court. It damages their reputation and hurts the business.

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realdeal212

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#19 [url]

Feb 1 11 12:42 PM

Never ending

skipper wrote:

I assume RealDeal is a young coach by the poor spelling and english.   The first red flag is telling us everything "he" has won versus what his teams have done.  The second red flag is claiming everyone should butt out as it's between he and his team.  It's only between he and his team if he talks quietly enough that others can't hear his "discussion" with the team.  As soon as you begin yelling, it's fair game for others to criticize.  Some parents, and club coaches don't want that example to be set as the only way to be successful.   The earlier poster said it correctly that there is a fine line.  Young players can be bullied and intimidated in to just taking the verbal lashing.  They are too afraid to complain.  Just yelling to play better doesn't give instruction on how to fix the problem.  If a player isn't giving effort, you can pull them and explain the reason they are on the bench is that you don't see the effort that's expected... Having said the previous, there are still many times to have the stern discussion and chastizing the team without creating the spectacle.

I assume skipper is one of the complainers I am talking about since the first line of his statement complains of something that means nothing. Last time I checked a coach is part of the team so a teams success or failure is also a coaches. I only coach they earn it by working hard. If someone is complaining about something that I say out of line that they hear, they have a right to complain. To complain about the manner in how I say something is between me and the people I am talking to not people just sitting around. You assume that yelling means I'm not telling them how to fix it. What would be the point in yelling if your not telling them what they need to do instead. I never said I have to yell in order to be successful. We won our tournament this weekend and the girls were talking about how I didn't yell at them once this weekend. I told them that they did exactly what I asked of them and there was no need to yell. I am 28 years old so you might think that I am young but age is just a #. Hopefully my English and spelling is satisfactory for you this time skipper, if not blame the spellcheck. I'm sure you'll still find something that rubs you the wrong way.
  

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