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vbcat

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Mar 11 14 9:02 AM

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Does anyone have more insight into how AES determines their Power Rankings and if these rankings are actually used to seed qualifiers?
I've read that their algorithm uses results obtained through AES, but also includes set scores and margin of victory as additional factors.
I would argue that set scores and margin of victory may not accurately represent the actual strength of a team since a coach may elect to play his subs during a match that it has clearly in control.

I'm more interested if directors of the Qualifier tournaments use it to seed their tournaments?
IMO - The current national rankings don't appear to fairly represent certain teams.

e.g. Dallas Skyline 18 is ranked 42 and has beat #23 HJV (4 times), #17 Tejas (2 times), and #32 Houston Skyline (once) for a combined record of 7-0.  They've only lost to the #1 (TAV), #13 (AJV) and #12 (KJ Baden) in the national rankings.

Hate to whine - just want to understand.


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ndwu

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Mar 11 14 9:37 AM

Ask Dallas Skyline Club Director if the results were actually submitted to the NQ the 18's are playing in.

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awgriffey

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Mar 12 14 7:23 AM

It doesn't seem like anybody is turning results in to AES, and obviously AES isn't doing any research to fill in the blanks so the rankings aren't really worth much at this stage.

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vb365

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#3 [url]

Mar 12 14 11:40 AM

As a club administrator who has entered many results into AES, it is frustrating to see those results not being pulled into the rankings.  For example, one of our teams has 40 results entered, but when looking at AES power rankings, the team's record only shows 21 matches.  Same situation with all our teams, only a portion of results being used in rankings formula.  

AES does state that if there is a discrepancy in your results vs what your opponent entered (different scores, etc), those results are discarded.  Maybe that is what is happening?  So if you are a region that uses AES for power leagues or if you've played tournaments which utilize AES scheduling, then your rankings should be more accurate.  

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jmac23

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Mar 13 14 4:49 AM

I would think that they are only using the results from the tournament that used AES so that more people will use AES and they will make more money. That's just a guess on my part, I have no data to back it up.
My team has only played in tournaments that have used AES and our ranking is about right in our region.
My complaint is the tournament directors that only partially use the ranking system and seed the tournaments some other way.
For instance, Our 14's are ranked 4th in our region with an 82% winning percentage. They are seeded 5th in the AAU Super Regional. There is a team that is seeded 2nd in the tournament that is ranked 28th in the regional rankings with a sizzling 65% winning percentage.
That makes no sense to me at all

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LS

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Mar 13 14 11:25 AM

jmac23 wrote:
I would think that they are only using the results from the tournament that used AES so that more people will use AES and they will make more money. That's just a guess on my part, I have no data to back it up.
My team has only played in tournaments that have used AES and our ranking is about right in our region.
My complaint is the tournament directors that only partially use the ranking system and seed the tournaments some other way.
For instance, Our 14's are ranked 4th in our region with an 82% winning percentage. They are seeded 5th in the AAU Super Regional. There is a team that is seeded 2nd in the tournament that is ranked 28th in the regional rankings with a sizzling 65% winning percentage.
That makes no sense to me at all
after reading thru how they determine their rankings and knowing some of the teams in our group.  They are basically using their scoring system (their website) for the results and ranks them from that.  the last two years...in our age group...the top 10 teams listed in the national ranks - four of them were in the highest division last year at nationals.  the other 6...i haven't heard of them before.  Not sayin they aren't deserving...but, AES states they use results from the past to help rank teams.  

basically, it appears that the more you use AES for your tournament (because as they state: we have accurate results), the higher your rank will be.  BTW, for example...Dynasty 14's ranked 192nd-finished 4th at crossroads.  Sunshine Southbay, ranked 229th nationally, but supposedly one of the top SC 14 team thus far.  

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volleylover

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#6 [url]

Mar 14 14 5:25 PM

I guess I'm doing something wrong...how to you pull up results?  I choose age group, region and either national or regional rankings, and I get nothing...just a blank screen.  What am I missing?

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volleylover

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Mar 15 14 7:23 AM

volleylover wrote:
I guess I'm doing something wrong...how to you pull up results?  I choose age group, region and either national or regional rankings, and I get nothing...just a blank screen.  What am I missing?
Never mind...seems to be working now.

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mass

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Posts: 274 Member Since:12/05/10

#8 [url]

Mar 15 14 7:20 PM

This system needs an overhaul. I can find one example of a team that won a tournament that AES says doesn't exist. That team received a high seed in a national qualifier as a result of that finish and other results.  AES should be wary of any team that is 20-0 without actually calling that club director or a tournament director to verify the results.

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jmac23

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Posts: 112 Member Since:11/27/12

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Mar 17 14 7:46 AM

And when they have to combine age groups, the final finish is skewed. We finished 3rd at the 1st Lady and when you look at the results, it shows us at 10th in 17 Club when we were actually 3rd in 16 Power.

I like the idea, they just need to be open to adjusting the algorithm when they see something that is not working.

jmac

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douglasls

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Posts: 38 Member Since:09/12/10

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Mar 17 14 11:55 AM

AES Results are even missing from AES Power Ranking calculations!

I have noticed that AES doesn't even necessarily use all of their AES results to calculate the national rankings.  Our team has all of the AES tournament wins and losses for the regional ranking, but one of our wins and one of our losses is not in the national calculations.   How often are the rankings updated? And do they do both the regional and national ranking updates simultaneously?

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settersX2

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Posts: 45 Member Since:06/20/13

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Mar 31 14 6:49 AM

They had us at 1-2 for the season on the rankings. However if you signed as our team we were something like 20-8 which was accurate. It had all of our results correct. The team rep emailed AES about the problem. They changed our record to 2-2 so another email resulted in us not being in the rankings at all. Of course now our 2's team is in the rankings twice.
This leads us to being seeded 31st at Big South despite a 9th place at Crossroads when we were in a three way tie in our three team pool.

The worst part about the bad seedings is for the other teams in the pool. If you have a 3 or 4 that should be a 1 or 2 it makes it very hard to stay in the top half.

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clubballmom

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Apr 2 14 6:58 AM

My understanding is they rank based on win/loss versus opponent, etc. Division shouldn't matter, as if you play an Open level team in a one-day tournament in "Club" division, all that is factored in is the end result.

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VBDad1

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#14 [url]

Apr 2 14 11:01 AM

I think their entire methodology is flawed and does not accurately take into account strength of opponents, Open vs Club tournaments, playing up in a higher age bracket, common opponents, etc. There are more things wrong with it than there are right. I think any 5 people on this board could sit in a room for an hour and come up with more accurate rankings...IMHO.

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