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goldmedalcoach

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Dec 11 12 6:40 PM

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Cauldrons, scoring, and stats in practice are tools for coaching.
Posting everyone stats and scores for all to see?

Life is competition but I've heard arguments that perhaps this can create negative consequences for some of the players and causes them to get frustrated.

What do you think?
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SBsD

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#1 [url]

Dec 11 12 7:41 PM

Personally, I'm in favor of making the stats open for view.  Most of the time, players already know where they rank on their team.  This just quantifies it for them.  It should also help players and coaches direct the proper attention on areas they need to improve.  If some players don't quite grasp their value on the team (high or low), practice and game stats will serve as a reality check.

No real downsides as far as I'm concerned, except for the extra time it will take for coaches to collect and maintain the numbers.  And I assume that these would be used most often for travel or national level club teams as opposed to lower level teams. "Three" and "four" level club teams are not likely to have coaching depth to handle this effort. College teams can do this because they have much more coaching support.
 
If I had a choice of placing my DD on a team with practice stats versus a team without, that would be a no-brainer. Stats every time.  BTW, I don't buy in to all the GM2 stuff (and the Cauldron system predates Gold Medal Squared by quite a bit, I believe), but I really like practice stats. 

And, as an added bonus, it'll make it easier for coaches to show parents why their DD is playing or not playing.  No more arguing: when your kid's numbers improve, you'll see her on the court more.  Maybe that helps make up for the extra time it takes to maintain stats.

Last Edited By: SBsD Dec 11 12 7:44 PM. Edited 1 time.

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goldmedalcoach

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Dec 12 12 10:33 AM

SBsd

I recently had a parent throw out a jab from when her daughter played for us 3 seasons back. The implication was that although we kept stats we didn't use them properly when making our lineups. Stat wise she was only the 6th best passer on the team.  A couple of matches we actually let her play the libero position. The parent thought this was ridiculous.

The truth of the matter was she was so inconsistent as a hitter and server and had a less than desirable work ethic in practice. The only place we could find playing time for her and still maintain the team's competitiveness was in the back row.

The end result was that she made some terrific digs and passes that helped us win a gold medal at nationals.  Silly us. The parent still thinks we don't use stats properly.

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KHitt71

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Dec 12 12 9:02 PM

In every single instance of a coach saying they use the "Cauldron" to determine who plays, there have been multiple times where an athlete has the better numbers, but another player gets the start, its BS.

The VFBL - Since 1993

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goldmedalcoach

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Dec 13 12 1:11 PM

I personally think Cauldrons are overrated but a few simple stats do aid us when making lineups. We track service receive in tournament play only and have found this a useful tool in determining who passes better in games. I've seen season after season that some girls are good "practice players" and some light up when the real whistle blows.

Don't get me wrong. We try to continue to develop the weaker skills of players and still give them their opportunities. We also see who's doing well that day and sometimes just make game decisions with gut feelings. However, when it is a critical match, we do make note who our better passers are based on their stats and use that as part of decision making process.


KHitt71
To support your case.

If a coach has a parent complaining about their daughter's playing time how hard would it be for them to "doctor" the stat sheet to justify the lack of playing time?

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SBsD

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Dec 14 12 12:56 AM

KHitt71 wrote:
In every single instance of a coach saying they use the "Cauldron" to determine who plays, there have been multiple times where an athlete has the better numbers, but another player gets the start, its BS.

Then the coach is not really "using" the Cauldron system.  

BTW, "in every single instance ... there have been multiple times" WTH?
     

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Diego

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Dec 14 12 10:53 AM

i like goldmedalcoach thinking about using a few simple stats..and the sometimes game decisions on gut feeling......stats can be skewed to however you want them to look

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BIGHITTER

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Dec 15 12 10:06 AM

First day of my graduate statistics class the the professor walks in, looks at all of us and says, "folks there are lies, damn lies and then statistics, in that order."  He then went on to say how he could take any study and change the outcome to statistically support any argument he wanted.

That stated, I love stats and use them, (to the point of the professor) you just have to know what you're seeing and how to use them properly.  The biggest problem with competitive cauldrons is that they are never the same for each girl.

For example, if you're running a hitters tournament, each hitter is hitting into a different front and back row.  In club there can be a huge drop in competency between MB1 and MB2.  So if hitter A goes up againist MB2 and hitter B goes up against MB1, the results ar invalid and shouldn't be used.  But coaches will, which makes his/her cauldron a damn lie.      

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SnareMV17

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Dec 15 12 10:14 AM

BIGHITTER wrote:
For example, if you're running a hitters tournament, each hitter is hitting into a different front and back row.  In club there can be a huge drop in competency between MB1 and MB2.  So if hitter A goes up againist MB2 and hitter B goes up against MB1, the results ar invalid and shouldn't be used.  But coaches will, which makes his/her cauldron a damn lie.      

That is precisely why you don't do it just once.  You do it several times, mixing the teams, going through the permutations.  Something tells me you missed that bit.  No one ever said that a single hitter's tournament is supposed to decide the whole thing.  Come on now...

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BIGHITTER

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#9 [url]

Dec 15 12 10:28 AM

And you kind sir missed my point, which was that many coaches miss use cauldorns by not mixing and matching.

Pistols at dawn...........Laugh

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alexsi

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Dec 18 12 10:52 PM

I like using cauldron's for two reasons:

1.) It encourages/fosters competition between the players, something that I think can be especially challenging to foster when coaching girls.
2.) It changes the nature of the relationship between the coach and the player - the player is no longer trying to impress the coach or make sure the coach likes them, etc.  Instead the player and the coach can both focus on helping the player improve their performance as reflected in the stats.

And Bighitter is right - you have to be SUPER careful when you use a cauldron to make sure your statistical experiments really are fair/unbiased.  And that is a lot of additional work for the coaches. It requires a lot of thinking/planning ahead of time and planning drills and matchups that span multiple practices in many cases. And then if a player is sick or missing, well, you've got a bunch of rework of your plans to do that night. The level of work is easily 2+ hours of planning/updating per practice in my experience.

If you don't have the time/commitment to do that, then a Cauldron is a mistake. It just gives you mis-leading data that is almost impossible to not want to use.

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