cruncher wrote:
I think back wistfully to bygone days when the big complaint was the 18's parents hogging this thread.
Ahh, the good ol' days. 
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 HuskyVbFan |
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Posts: 1392 (05/19/08 6:50 PM) |
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loganpkbt |
old | ||
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Posts: 585 (05/19/08 10:01 PM) |
soldiers never die they simply fade away.....
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VKorchnoi |
High Performance Pool | ||
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Posts: 124 (05/19/08 11:13 PM) |
lblazer wrote: Blazer, it sure looked to me like many or most of the "top" players did not attend youth tryouts. With the exception of two impressive middles-
one from PS and the 5-10 blonde- the talent pool seemed a bit thin. There certainly did not seem to be any dominant players at outside or setter. It seemed
that most of the top players were sitting out for either nationals- no UPVBC16 players and few WAVA15- or perhaps for either National HP camps, college
camps, high-school camps, beach, burnout, social life or cost.
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VKorchnoi |
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Posts: 124 (05/19/08 11:13 PM) |
lblazer wrote:
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VKorchnoi |
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Posts: 124 (05/19/08 11:39 PM) |
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lblazer |
HP | ||
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Posts: 25 (05/20/08 10:12 AM) |
I haven't been around the select age group all that much, so I don't know how well it was represented. There was definitely some talent there.
I probably won't name names until the final list is posted. There were a lot of players I can think of that I would have liked to see at the Youth level. Your recap was quite informed. Either you were there (and didn't say hi ;-) or you have a great informant. My thoughts from the tryouts are that I could put together a very strong team from the talent that was there. I think the region will be represented well. It was nice to see 5 of my players show up too. I guess I'll post later. It was my first year being part of they High Performance program. The tryout reminded me of tryouts for my NW team this year. I had to sort through about 105 girls on a couple courts in just a few hours. Which brings up another topic... |
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lblazer |
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Posts: 25 (05/20/08 10:30 AM) |
Tryouts...
Have you ever thought about this. I don't think I've seen posts on it, and it really isn't the "big" topic right now... From a coaches perspective. A high school coach has up to a week to run tryouts. Say it's 4 days, and they run "3-a-days". At two hours each, we're looking at 24 hours of exposure to your group. Even the lesser processes I've heard of still have about 12 hours exposure. Now the coach knows his/her players from previous years. There is a new wave of Freshmen, but I'm sure the top ones with club affiliation did their work and contacted the head coach already. I feel the coach knows at least 80% of the group coming in. So here's the formula: HS 12-16 hours, 80% knowledge of talent, 3 month season(if you go state) Club tryouts: I know NWJrs is probably the exception to the general as we have more teams than any other club, but I'm interested in your experiences. I had 105 girls to look at. I had to sort them on 2 courts (one was a "mix" court, so I really only had one to myself). I had 2-3 hours to pick the team (the other coaches had to have time to pick the groups after me, so I was pressed). I knew about 50% of the girls that came it, and that was only because I had been at Nevillizms all summer, and I spent any free time I could going to High School matches to visit the kids I had before, and find some new ones. I'd say 30% is a better figure. Here's the formula: Club 2-3 hours, 30% knowledge of talent, 7 month season How do parents see it. I think this would apply more to the younger ages as there is still a lot of switching going on. I remember talks about the 18's that moved around, and it seemed minimal to me. Just curious. |
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VKorchnoi |
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Posts: 124 (05/20/08 12:37 PM) |
Great question on the tryouts!
I'm not a high school coach but I would suspect that the high school tryouts last longer for a few reasons. At most schools I would suspect that the number of players with superior skill sets is relatively small and the coach really has to search for players he can develop. Also, since there is only a limited number of roster spots he or she runs a longer tryout to make sure that all the girls have a legitamite chance to show their stuff. Finally, most schools have to make cuts which means that that girl doesn't get to play yet still has to interact with those same girls at school. At the clubs most of the coaches and the girls know who is going to make which teams; either they are incumbents or they have been recruited. Additionally, the club tryouts do generate money, many clubs add teams in order to fit in as many girls as possible the coaches have to make quicker decisions. Now I have a question; are you as a coach aware if a player has had a bad attitude at another club, or do you make some calls to other clubs or coaches to get that kind of insight? |
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Vball Coach J |
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Posts: 92 (05/20/08 12:51 PM) |
VKorchnoi wrote: LOL On the other hand, you do see most of these girls through the years and you can usually recognize the ones you don't want on your team. Some girls just
have bad attitudes and as you and I know...that is a cancer on a team. You could have all the talent in the world and suck badly if one or two kids have
"that" attitude.
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HuskyVbFan |
HP Tryouts | ||
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Posts: 1392 (05/20/08 1:52 PM) |
In general I thought the tryouts were run well, but I have a basic philosophical problem with the way HP is set up. I will say in advance, that I understand
the reasoning at the National level, but not at the local level. Don't happen to agree with it, by I do understand it.
The basic problem with HP is that, due to FIVB age groups, everything is done in two year bands that advance once every two years. So everyone that is in the Select group (1994 and 1995 birthdates, I am ignoring any 11s and unders with 1996 or above birthdates) will move en mass to the Youth group in two years. Two years after that they will all move to the Junior group. So the "odd year" players (1995, 1993 and 1991) will always be the youngest players in the group. This gives the even year players an inherent advantage in the HP process. As I said, I understand the theory at the national level, but I don't understand the region giving an inherent benefit to one group to the disadvantage of another group of players. To me the answer is obvious: select the participants in the HP camp by year instead of by two year bracket. So, for instance, the Select group instead of having 32 campers from that "band", have 16 campers from 1994s and 16 from 1995s and above. There would still remain the differences caused by using January 1st while everything else in club is based on September 1st (so "Select" spans U14 to U12 [U15 to U12 next year], "Youth" spans U16 to U14, etc), but that is a much tougher "nut" to crack. |
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VKorchnoi |
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Posts: 124 (05/20/08 2:19 PM) |
Don't I know it- all too well unfortunately.
Sometimes the coaches look the other way when it comes to bad attitudes hoping that the bad apple will grow out of it; instead the rest of the team is infected. Those same coaches are then left wondering "why are so many girls not coming back to the club"? Funny thing is how insightful the girls are. |
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VKorchnoi |
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Posts: 124 (05/20/08 2:39 PM) |
Last Edited By: VKorchnoi
05/20/08 2:54 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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VKorchnoi |
Bad Apples | ||
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Posts: 124 (05/20/08 2:52 PM) |
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lblazer |
Bad Apples | ||
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Posts: 25 (05/20/08 5:48 PM) |
I feel in my 6 seasons coaching that I haven't had "that one kid." No one is perfect, but I think that's one thing I really try to hone in
on with tryouts. As far as talking to other clubs, I don't see it happening too much. I contacted another club to find players to go to Reno last year,
and even that was a bit touchy. I rely on my "gossip" from players and parents whom I'm close to. And I say "gossip" because I'll
still give a kid a chance to impress. Summer camps are a great way to see talent out there, and have a chance to interact with them.
As much as a players BA is going to hurt them, so it their parents. I've not taken a girl solely on the interaction I saw with her dad coaching her from the sideline during the whole tryout. In talking to other coaches I find I'm not totally alone in that assessment. It's a funny thing though when you are making quick decisions at big tryouts. I spent a lot of time talking to Carolyn (who coaches Whitman college in Walla x2) during the HP tryouts, and it's amazing how we came to different conclusions on some players. Coaches see different things, and evaluate completely different sometimes. The one things that I noticed is how many girls didn't stand out much. There are definitely a lot of little things a player should do to stand out in these situations...small things, but most valuable. |
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lblazer |
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Posts: 25 (05/20/08 5:54 PM) |
VKorchnoi wrote: I would easily pass on the best player in the league if I knew they would infect the rest of the team. A new dimension I've added to my decision is "do they elevate the play of those around them." I have a current player who is right in the middle of the pack, but she will always make my team because she elevates the attitude, and play of everyone else on the team. |
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VKorchnoi |
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Posts: 124 (05/20/08 6:40 PM) |
Here, here Blazer! Great post, particularly the part about players that make everyone around them better.
I think that has been the secret of Jim Jim McLaughlin at UW- he has a knack for finding players that make the superstars around them even better. |
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Vball Coach J |
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Posts: 92 (05/20/08 7:12 PM) |
lblazer wrote: Amen brother! You can easily tell doing mini-tournaments too. Particularly OH and MB tournaments. Some girls just get the attitude up on a court and it
shows in the results!
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dewnorth |
Re: Bad apples | ||
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Posts: 44 (05/21/08 1:10 AM) |
Maybe a bit of a stretch given this forum, but something I heard tonight struck me; the Detroit Pistons have won an NBA Championship and gone to 6 straight
Eastern Conference Finals - without a Hall of Fame caliber player. You'd probably have to go back to the Sonics of the late 70s to see that kind of
superstar-less success. But it goes to show that even today you don't need a superstar to win, just good players willing to commit to each other - and in
so doing, making those around them better.
Also interesting to note that Rasheed Wallace appears to be an attitude problem from the outside (cast away by Portland, leading the league in technicals nearly every year), but his teammates love him. I'm sure Joe Dumars (Detroit's GM) is glad he didn't listen to outsiders regarding Wallace. The point being that getting input from other coaches, "gossip" from other players and parents, can be a dicey thing. You might talk yourself out of solid talent and a great fit for your team. Which in a VERY roundabout way gets back to Blazer's initial thought: how to evaluate talent AND attitude - for yourself - in the incredibly time sensitive environment of club tryouts? Tough duty, and I agree with Blazer that you have to give every kid a chance to impress, regardless of what the rumors are. Finally, I think the best teams have a core of trusted players and build on that core from year to year. Exactly what the Pistons have done. There are two questions to ask: who is a good fit talent-wise and who is a good fit attitude-wise? The core players could be that first resource on attitude - which is the point VK made earlier: kids are very insightful. |
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Vball Coach J |
Your new PSR Jr Program Director is... | ||
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Registered Member
Posts: 92 (05/21/08 9:32 AM) |
Bill Neville. Good luck to him in his new position!
Robyn Filimaua retains the Chair of Referees. John Littleman retains the At Large seat. |
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kjfan |
Gratz | ||
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Posts: 109 (05/21/08 9:52 AM) |
Vball Coach J wrote: Coach J,
Sorry to hear you didn't win. I was pulling for you. |
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I wish! I have given coaches in my club some insight on certain
girls. Some coaches don't listen too well though! 
