Differences in National/American

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Author	Comment
cruisinkitkat.biddingfortravel	Differences in National/American	Lead	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 5 (05/09/08 9:22 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Hi All, I am new to all this volleyball stuff, my daughters team got a regional bid to JO's. They are in the American catagory. Can someone please explain all the differences between, Open, National and American? Sorry if this seems silly, but I just don't know the differences. I am just happy for her to go to JO's and want her to just enjoy the experience and have a good time. Thanks in advance for any help. Kathy
olddblueeyes	Hmm...	#1	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 83 (05/09/08 9:51 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	cruisinkitkat wrote: Hi All, I am new to all this volleyball stuff, my daughters team got a regional bid to JO's. They are in the American catagory. Can someone please explain all the differences between, Open, National and American? Sorry if this seems silly, but I just don't know the differences. I am just happy for her to go to JO's and want her to just enjoy the experience and have a good time. Thanks in advance for any help. Kathy ...it sounds like you have a great attitude and the right focus on your daughter's achievement, which you should. I wouldn't worry about the differences in the three divisions and keep your focus on what's important...YOU'RE GOING TO JOs AND GOING TO HAVE A GREAT TIME!
verticalhelp		#2	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 9 (05/09/08 10:02 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Open means you had to play Open at a qualifier and win a bid there. That's the only place to get an Open bid. National means you played in the club division at a qualifier and took first or you placed first at your region qualifier. American means you took second at a qualifier in club division or you took second at your region qualifier (or sometimes third or so if you region is big enough to get extra bids). It is very exciting to qualify and we have always had a great time!
expertidiot		#3	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 325 (05/09/08 10:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	oldblueeyes, she asked a question, and you told her not to worry about the answer... but perhaps she asked the question because she wanted to know the answer... Open is the top division for ages 14-18. The only way at team can qualify to compete in the Open division at Nationals is to finish in the top 3 at an Open division National Qualifier (or, as low as 6th to get a trickle-down bid). National is the second division for ages 14-18, and the top division for ages 12-13. You can get a bid to National either by winning (or doing very well) at your regional power championships or at a "Club" level National Qualifier. American is the third division for ages 14-18, and the second division for ages 12-13. You get a bid to go to the American division at Nationals in a similar way you would get a National bid... if you didn't quite do well enough to get the National bid, you get an American bid instead. A simplistic way to look at it is that the Open teams are the best teams, the National teams are the next best teams, and the American teams are the next best teams after that. It doesn't quite work that way, though... many of the teams that compete in American are better than many of the teams that compete in the National division, for example. My team went to the American division at 13's last year and had a marvelous experience. This year we're going to the National division. Best of luck...
cruisinkitkat.biddingfortravel	Thanks	#4	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 5 (05/09/08 10:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks, thats what I thought. We are going and we are going to have fun.
olddblueeyes	Hmmm...	#5	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 83 (05/09/08 10:19 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	cruisinkitkat wrote: Thanks, thats what I thought. We are going and we are going to have fun. ...EI didn't mean to be mean or brief. Just wanted to avoid the debate about National Teams that could whoop Open Teams; American versus National; on and on.... The point I should've made better was, regardless of the division, just making it to JOs places you in a very elite category of maybe the Top 2%-3% of USAV teams in the nation. The vast majority of USAV teams are done with their season with only a very few going to JOs.
Jsetme1	National/American comparisons	#6	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 128 (05/09/08 10:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Another item to look at is that the National division features the top point-scoring team from each region, and the American division often includes the next highest-scoring teams from regions that receive multiple American bids. So, you could make the argument that there will be more parity in the American division because of the extra representation from 'power' regions, whereas there would be a more readily identifiable top third of the National division due to inclusion of the top point-scorers from less-volleyball-saturated regions. Having had my butt kicked in all three divisions, it's an observation, and not an endorsement of one over the other.
vbshooter	National/American Bid Process	#7	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 23 (05/09/08 1:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think there is a difference in how the National and American bid winners are determined across the regions. For instance, some regions determine their bid winners based upon total points accumulated over the course of the Power League season (including a regional championship, where all previously qualified Open, National and American bid teams in that region participate). There also seem to be regions that determine their National and American bid winners from a regional bid tournament held at the end of the Power League season, where the tournament field may not include previously qualified Open, National or American teams. I haven't done any in-depth research, but would be curious to know which process is more prevalent.
Vintense	Why?	#8	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 25 (05/09/08 3:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Cruisin, thanks for starting this discussion, and other posters thanks for confirming my understanding of the Open/National/American bid process. This still leaves me with the question of why the separation of the Open division? If I am understanding everything correctly you can secure a National and potentially an American bid in your respective region. If you want to increase these chances you would attend a Qualifier and compete in the "Club" division. I am assuming that at the regional level Open/Club teams (unless previously awarded a bid) compete at a Regional Bid Tournament, Power Leagues or total points for these bids. To me this seems like a very fair process to insure that the "best" teams are represented through head to head competition. Now, I am not so new to volleyball that I don't see that at the Open level these are, in most cases, the top tier teams. What I don't understand is why that can't be determined in the regions or in an all comers qualifiers with a top teams getting the Open bids, next teams National and then teams after that American? My personal observation comes from the MEQ 14's. 3 out of 18 teams received Open Bids (16.7%) while only 1 out of 56 teams received a National Bid (1.7%). To take it one step further in the OVR one team out of 26 (3.9%) received the regional National bid. I would appreciate some insight into why if there is going to be 3 separate levels at the National Tournament why the statistically easiest and one you have more opportunities to "chase" is considered the top level? Thanks for anticipated clarification and education on this issue.
cruisinkitkat.biddingfortravel	Im starting to get it.	#9	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 5 (05/09/08 3:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks to everyone for the replies, I think I understand it a little bit more. I always thought volleyball was the ball going back and forth, but there is so much more to this game, that I am going to just sit on the sidelines, cheer on our team and hope for the best. Again thanks everyone. Kathy
eweeyeewesee		#10	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 308 (05/09/08 3:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	verticalhelp wrote: Open means you had to play Open at a qualifier and win a bid there. That's the only place to get an Open bid. ...unless you get an at-large bid.
NYvbc	More...	#11	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 147 (05/09/08 3:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The "goal" for Open and National is entirely different. For the Open tournament, the goal is to get the best 28 teams in the country competing against each other, regardless of geography. The National tournament, on the other hand, is designed more as a regional championship where the top team from each of the USAV regions competes for the championship (plus a few wildcards - the winners at the qualifiers and reallocation bids). Each region is free to award their bids (Nationals and American if they get them) in whatever "Fair and Equitable" manner they choose. Some regions allocate them based on the seasons body of work, some on the results of a Regional Championship event, and some on a separate competition for the bid. While there are certainly exceptions to the rule, the OPEN division generally has the best 28 teams in the nation (yes, I know the JVDA teams will take exception to this statement). The National tournament never claims to have the "best" 48 teams. It strives to present the best each region has in competition (after the open qualifiers, of course).
Vintense	At-Large	#12	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 25 (05/09/08 3:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You still had to play at at least one Open Qualifer to get At-Large, correct?
olddblueeyes	Hmm...	#13	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 83 (05/09/08 3:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	cruisinkitkat wrote: Thanks to everyone for the replies, I think I understand it a little bit more. I always thought volleyball was the ball going back and forth, but there is so much more to this game, that I am going to just sit on the sidelines, cheer on our team and hope for the best. Again thanks everyone. Kathy ...do stoll over to the Open Courts when you get a chance adn take your player with you.
eweeyeewesee		#14	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 308 (05/09/08 3:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Vintense wrote: You still had to play at at least one Open Qualifer to get At-Large, correct? That is correct, but you do not necessarily have to have qualified at that qualifier to eventually get a bid.
Vintense	NYvbc thanks	#15	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 25 (05/09/08 3:44 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	NYvbc, thanks for additional explanation of Open vs. National. I still like the idea of the telling my non volleyball addicted friends and family that my daughter is competing for the NATIONAL J.O. Volleyball Championship instead of the OPEN J.O. Volleyball Championship! Good luck to all who are in the top 2-3% (great perspective OldBlueEyes!) of J.O. teams competing in Dallas!
CDBVB		#16	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 12 (05/10/08 9:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Quick question and w/out naming the team: A team qualified in the LA qual. They got an American bid. However, Monday, I was reading what teams got regional bids, I saw that the team that won an American bid was now listed as playing "National". How can that be? Maybe they were given a choice since they had already won an American bid?
VB ALL 1	National Drop Down Bid?	#17	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 373 (05/10/08 10:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sounds like the team ahead of them must have received an Open at-Large bid. Or, did they win a National bid at the regional qualifier?
lifeonthesidelines		#18	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 383 (05/10/08 10:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	CDBVB wrote: Quick question and w/out naming the team: A team qualified in the LA qual. They got an American bid. However, Monday, I was reading what teams got regional bids, I saw that the team that won an American bid was now listed as playing "National". How can that be? Maybe they were given a choice since they had already won an American bid? If I understand you correctly, they had an American, and then after regionals they are listed as having a National bid? If they went to Regionals and won a National bid, they would not be given a choice, they would HAVE to take the National bid per USAV rules--they have to use the higher bid.
NYvbc	Precedence	#19	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 147 (05/11/08 8:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We can take it one step further and say that teams never have a choice if they earn a bid in more than one division. Open > National > American and a team must always take the higher bid. Some regions, but certainly not all, won't allow a team to play for a higher bid (National) if they already have one (American).
CDBVB	Team Accepted American Bid now playing in National Div.	#20	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 12 (05/11/08 11:56 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thank you for your input, but I think I need to be more specific, so you know exactly what I am talking about. Regarding 15's: SCVC - 15 Nike "accepted" an American bid when they qualified in LA. Refer to SCVA: Events, Girls, Jr. Nat., Qual. 2008 Session 1, final standings. You can scroll down the list and see in black and white that they accepted an American bid in the 15's division. Yet, when you look at the SCVA: Events, Girls, Jr. Nationals, it appears that they will be playing in the National Division. I was wondering how they were able to jump from American to National ? Just curious. Thanks.